Planning to fail or failing to plan or something like that....

[kev woodman]

I know that there aren't too many coders on this forum but if you do code - even of you just have a dabble now and again - I'd be interested in hearing how you go about it.

That doesn't sound too clear but what I'm interested in is whether anyone uses a particular methodology when they start a project e.g. do you 'design by comment', scribble stuff on paper, dive in with just a rough outline in you head? Or do you/have you followed a more structured method like extreme programming?

[Dan]

I basically just store everything up-top in my brain although if i need to write something down i'll notepad it.

[byteme]

For programming you do need a plan and most of mine involve databases and php (or perl)

I usually am too lazy to write the create tables script as creating the tables and how they interact in phpMyAdmin usually helps me focus what I need.

I then write the connectors (and test they work)
I then write a script outline by comments of what I need in the way of functions

I then write the controller fro the functions a bit at a time, starting with checking usernames /pass and validating any user data etc.

I then fill in the blanks where the comments have noted I need a function.

Three things to remember: Test, test and test again!

If you test as it builds you will find it easier than trying to test whole scripts.

And remember echo is your friend

[kev woodman]

I like a good var_dump myself but thanks(both) for you replies. Personally I've tried Extreme Programming, and Test Driven Development and in work we use a kind of bastard hybrid of the two. I have a weird kink for engineering techniques so its always nice to hear of other peoples methods.

[jon123]

Until recently I used to 'dive straight in' creating the mysql table structure first and then creating the scripts to insert and manipulate the data.
But now i use pen and paper first to create an overview, then write down all the pages i will need, and then add comments to each page. I don't comment on the actual php scripts themselves although i should but the paperwork is my reference

[Administrator]

Our developers had similar problems earlier as they failed to complete some products that we needed to offer turnkey reseller hosting service.

This was quite frustrating as I had absolutely no knowledge of development / Programming and getting things managed to have owned products appeared to be impossible.

Finally I recalled something that was taught in School which is "Algorithm" & "Flowchart"

I made them write Algorithm and Flowchart and submit that to me and then got them to proceed step by step. Results are positive and we will have a billing system as well as livechat software launched for our Resellers for free of cost by the end of this year

[kev woodman]

Can't remember the last time I saw a flowchart as such - your sure they didn't just scribble something down to keep you happy

re: commenting code Jon I don't write as many as I should but I believe in 'self-documenting' code. I write API comments for classes and methods but I think that if you use sensible variable names and lay your code out neatly then it should be pretty obvious what it does.

So has anyone ever felt the need to use UML? Or do you think that some of the more formal methods/techniques are overkill for Web dev?

[jon123]

So has anyone ever felt the need to use UML? Or do you think that some of the more formal methods/techniques are overkill for Web dev?

Way over my head i'm afraid. My knowledge stops at the php door. As per other thread, I am trying Zend as I type and maybe that will lead to more complex modeling, don't know.

Slightly related : I did dabble in Flex for a couple of weeks on your recommendation, and really enjoyed it, but found no real uses for it at the present time as simple applications that i created were in the region of 300Kbs.
I was looking at Eclipse and that maybe something worth getting into from my perspective

[Administrator]

Originally Posted by kev woodman

Can't remember the last time I saw a flowchart as such - your sure they didn't just scribble something down to keep you happy

Your are right

They did it just for the sake of doing it, but for someone who needs to get work done from developers has no other way to give guidelines and suggest changes.

[Dan]

When i'm developing a project i usually initialize a Gantt chart in excel which i can then pinpoint out the tasks i need to complete.

[kev woodman]

Actually Admin there are lots of ways that you can manage programming teams and a lot of software engineering methodologies are designed to do just that.

Personally I think traditional software engineering fails when applied to Web Dev (my thesis was on this) but it doesn't fail completely. You could try looking up test-driven development or extreme programming. Both require the programmers to get constant feedback from the stakeholders (in this case you).

Eclipse is well worth learning Jon. It can seem a bit over the top for PHP but its so configurable and powerful that after a while you can't imagine coding without it. I temporarily lost my Eclipse workspace the other day and damn near cried as hard as I did tonight when France lost